Grit and Growth: Keys to Success for Women Lawyers
In this episode of the Practitioner Scholar podcast, hosted by Julio Zelaya, we meet Dr. Milana Hogan, the Chief Talent Officer at Sullivan and Cromwell, LLP. Dr. Hogan is an alumna of the Penn Chief Learning Officer (CLO) program at the University of Pennsylvania and holds a doctorate in work-based learning and development. The episode focuses on the role of grit and growth mindset in the success of women lawyers in big law firms.
Dr. Hogan shares her groundbreaking research findings, which reveal that non-cognitive traits such as grit and a growth mindset are strong predictors of success for women in the legal profession. She discusses how law firms can employ these traits to reduce the gender gap at leadership levels and offers practical advice for both organizations and aspiring women lawyers. Additionally, the episode highlights Dr. Hogan's personal journey, the challenges she faced, and how the Penn CLO program has been transformative in her career and personal life.
Creators and Guests
Host
Julio Zelaya
Julio Zelaya is the keynote speaker senior teams trust for their most decisive moments. A bilingual, bicultural voice for both Americas, he helps organizations make the decisions that define what comes next, combining Penn-level academic rigor, real-world AI expertise, and stage energy that moves a room. Julio is Academic Director of the "Implementing AI in the Classroom" program at the University of Pennsylvania's Graduate School of Education, where he also serves as faculty, and Senior Principal in the Innovation & AI Practice at The RBL Group. Each year he works with close to 125,000 leaders in more than 20 countries. In 2026, Education Technology Insights featured him on the cover of its "Leadership Perspectives" edition as a "Judgment Education Architect," alongside his article "When Intelligence Gets Cheap, Judgment Gets Expensive." An educator for 27 years (he started teaching at 19), Julio is also a serial EdTech entrepreneur. He co-founded Escolaris, Guatemala's first accredited online K–12 school, and Bright Domino, and he built and sold his first company. He is the author of five #1 Amazon bestsellers in Spanish, has co-authored with Steve Forbes and Brian Tracy, and his work has been endorsed by Marshall Goldsmith, Kevin O'Leary, and Verne Harnish. He holds an MSEd from Penn GSE, where he is completing his EdD, an MBA from INCAE, and a doctorate in Human Dynamics and Mental Health. He is a CALI X-Ponential Fellow of the Aspen Global Leadership Network and a member of EO. His forthcoming book, The Voltage Mismatch, explores how the person you share your life with shapes everything else, including how you lead and how you work. Two things most audiences don't know: at age 10, he was mayor of Guatemala City for a day, and he has written and produced more than 50 original songs. His work comes down to one idea: design the moment, win the outcome.
Guest
Dr. Milana Hogan
Dr. Milana L. Hogan is the Chief Talent Officer at Sullivan & Cromwell LLP, where she oversees the firm’s talent strategy, including training and career development programs, performance evaluations, diversity initiatives, legal human resources, paralegals and analysts, secretaries, and the firm’s worldwide recruiting efforts. She joined Sullivan & Cromwell LLP in 2006. In addition to her work at Sullivan & Cromwell LLP, Dr. Hogan serves as a liaison to the American Bar Association Commission on Women in the Profession where she helped to launch the Grit Project in 2014. In addition to her work with the ABA, Dr. Hogan was a board member of the Professional Development Consortium for ten years, including a two-year term as Chair. She is also a member of the Career Advancement & Management Committee of the NYC Bar and was recently inducted as a Fellow in the College of Law Practice Management (class of 2026). Dr. Hogan published her first book, Grit, The Secret to Advancement, in 2017, and she is a contributing author to PLI’s Stepping It Up: A Guide for Mid-Level Law Firm Associates, which was published in 2020. Dr. Hogan also served as the lead researcher and author of the ABA’s Gritty Teams Report, which was published in April of 2023. She is a frequent speaker and presenter and has delivered many high-impact training programs around the world for law firms, law schools, bar associations and public and private corporations, including Goldman Sachs, Harvard and Yale Law Schools, and the New York City Bar Association. She is currently working on her second book, which is scheduled to be published in late 2027. She received her B.A. in Political Science from Brown University and her Doctor of Education from the University of Pennsylvania. She lives in New Canaan, Connecticut with her husband and their four children.
Producer
Dr. Raghu Krishnamoorthy
Dr. Raghu Krishnamoorthy is a scholar-practitioner whose 40-year career spans corporate HR leadership and doctoral education. From 2022 to 2026 he was Senior Fellow and Director of the University of Pennsylvania's Chief Learning Officer (PennCLO) doctoral program. There he shaped the curriculum, led faculty and admissions, and chaired dissertations on leadership, learning, and the future of work. He has also taught at Wharton and been guest faculty at Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan, Yale, and Columbia. Before moving into academia, Raghu spent 25 years at General Electric, with HR roles in India, Hong Kong, London, and the United States. He was CHRO of GE Aviation, Chief Talent and Learning Officer at Crotonville, GE's leadership institute, and CHRO of GE Healthcare. He then became Chief Human Resources Officer of GE, leading HR for a $120 billion company with an HR organization of 4,000 people. Earlier in his career he held HR roles at American Express Bank, Modi-Xerox, and Escorts in India. His research looks at the future of work, the workplace, and the worker. His doctoral dissertation, on how leader behaviors affect employee engagement in virtual work, was awarded distinction, and his research won the Academy of Business Research's Best Paper Award in 2020. He writes often for Harvard Business Review and co-edited Leaders as Architects of Change (Routledge, 2026) with Sharon Ravitch. Raghu has advised and consulted with several organizations, including Boeing, Kraft Heinz, Tech Mahindra, Takeda, and the Tata Group. He sits on the board of IIM Ahmedabad's Ashank Desai Center for Learning and Organizational Development. He holds an Ed.D. and M.S.Ed. from Penn and an MBA from IIM Ahmedabad and was a Hubert H. Humphrey Fellow under the Fulbright program.
