Rethinking Psychological Safety: What Sales Can Teach Anyone About Cooperation and Trust
In this episode of The Penn CLO Podcast, host Emma Zumsen sits down with Dr. Jess Jones, a recent graduate of the CLO program, to delve into her groundbreaking research on the intersection of B2B sales and psychological safety. Dr. Jones highlights how psychological safety, often focused on team dynamics within organizations, plays a crucial role in B2B sales environments.
Moving beyond sales, the conversation delves into the concept of 'small L leaders,' who can foster psychological safety even without positional authority by applying three key principles. Specifically, Dr. Jones's research emphasizes strategies for building trust without positional authority, enabling respectful cooperation, and applying strategic patience. She also hints at her ongoing research exploring the application of these principles in broader workplace contexts. This episode is a must-listen for those interested in leadership, sales, and creating effective, trust-based professional relationships.
Moving beyond sales, the conversation delves into the concept of 'small L leaders,' who can foster psychological safety even without positional authority by applying three key principles. Specifically, Dr. Jones's research emphasizes strategies for building trust without positional authority, enabling respectful cooperation, and applying strategic patience. She also hints at her ongoing research exploring the application of these principles in broader workplace contexts. This episode is a must-listen for those interested in leadership, sales, and creating effective, trust-based professional relationships.
Creators and Guests
Guest
Dr. Jess Jones
Dr. Jess Jones is a Senior Fellow and Director of the Penn Chief Learning Officer (Penn CLO) doctoral program at the University of Pennsylvania Graduate School of Education. A graduate of the program herself, she previously served as its academic director of onboarding and as contributing faculty. Today she leads program strategy, the student experience, and curriculum innovation for executive doctoral learners. Her teaching and scholarship center on leadership development, psychological safety, organizational learning, and executive education. Her dissertation examined psychological safety and power dynamics in business-to-business healthcare sales, and her current research explores how people create psychologically safe environments without relying on positional authority. She has published and presented on leadership, inclusion, emotional intelligence, and organizational transformation for both academic and practitioner audiences. Dr. Jones brings more than 20 years of executive leadership and consulting experience in professional services to her work, including a role as chief operating officer of a firm's Leadership Services Division. She has guided healthcare organizations and academic medical centers across the United States through organizational transformation, leadership development, change management, and strategic growth. She is also a trained executive coach and a certified Prosci ADKAR change management practitioner.
Producer
Dr. Raghu Krishnamoorthy
Dr. Raghu Krishnamoorthy is a scholar-practitioner whose 40-year career spans corporate HR leadership and doctoral education. From 2022 to 2026 he was Senior Fellow and Director of the University of Pennsylvania's Chief Learning Officer (PennCLO) doctoral program. There he shaped the curriculum, led faculty and admissions, and chaired dissertations on leadership, learning, and the future of work. He has also taught at Wharton and been guest faculty at Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan, Yale, and Columbia. Before moving into academia, Raghu spent 25 years at General Electric, with HR roles in India, Hong Kong, London, and the United States. He was CHRO of GE Aviation, Chief Talent and Learning Officer at Crotonville, GE's leadership institute, and CHRO of GE Healthcare. He then became Chief Human Resources Officer of GE, leading HR for a $120 billion company with an HR organization of 4,000 people. Earlier in his career he held HR roles at American Express Bank, Modi-Xerox, and Escorts in India. His research looks at the future of work, the workplace, and the worker. His doctoral dissertation, on how leader behaviors affect employee engagement in virtual work, was awarded distinction, and his research won the Academy of Business Research's Best Paper Award in 2020. He writes often for Harvard Business Review and co-edited Leaders as Architects of Change (Routledge, 2026) with Sharon Ravitch. Raghu has advised and consulted with several organizations, including Boeing, Kraft Heinz, Tech Mahindra, Takeda, and the Tata Group. He sits on the board of IIM Ahmedabad's Ashank Desai Center for Learning and Organizational Development. He holds an Ed.D. and M.S.Ed. from Penn and an MBA from IIM Ahmedabad and was a Hubert H. Humphrey Fellow under the Fulbright program.
